Wednesday, November 25, 2009

andreas helgstrand - take a look at his training techniques

This video is on his website (for the moment) and although this one showcases the horse Donna Silver, look at the other horses. At times you can only see them in the mirrors, and if you use the pause button, you'll see even more.

Sadly I don't think I can ever watch his rides on Blue Hors Matine again.

I didn't post this last night but instead saved it, figuring to put it up tomorrow. Already, just 12 hours later, the video has been removed. Isn't it interesting that the trainers and riders doing these methods argue that there is nothing wrong with them, that they are actually good for the horses, and yet they take down the "evidence" when it's pointed out online?

Enjoy the day, give thanks for your blessings, and go hug your horses.


There is actually another video where several horses are being rollkured in the background. Let's see if he takes THIS one down too...

And look at this one:

Behind the vertical, rider leaning way back, horse trying to get its head up to breathe, I presume, or relieve the pressure on the mouth, but if you watch you'll see that this is NOT harmonious riding, not a happy horse at all.


Grey Horse Matters said...

I tried to watch it but I think it has been deleted already. Now I don't know whether or not to take down the video I have of Blue Hors Matinee. It was such a beautiful ride but...I wouldn't have thought he was one of the ones using this training method, she seemed to really go so well and enjoy her time in the spotlight. Now I'm wondering how she incurred her injuries and was retired. I love that horse.

Have a nice Thanksgiving dinner, I've got to go baste the turkey.

billie said...

Yes, Arlene - it was pointed out last night on the Facebook page discussing rollkur and suddenly, after a number of people said they would be writing to his sponsors, that one video was pulled.

Someone does have it on her computer hard drive, and I hope she figures out how to get it online.

There were a number of horses being ridden in the background, all being rollkured and all with draw reins on. It was nose to chest, heavy-handed riding, and because of the arena mirrors there were many moments where you could see not one, but several horses being ridden that way.

Much like a chamber of horror.

There was also a short segment where the number of swishing tails completely obliterated the rest of the action.

Unbelievable that was online as an example of good riding. And even more unbelievable that when pointed out, it has disappeared.

I take that as a sign that they on some level know it's wrong.

I'm basting too! And getting VERY hungry.


ponymaid said...

Billie, I think someone should baste the Rollkur crew. Lambasting certainly does nothing.

billie said...

Sheaffer! The wisdom of donkeys...

Hope you are doing well. The nephews send their best and if marching with yellow cards on sticks doesn't work, they will be happy to join you in the basting efforts.

*Sharon* said...

So sad. And yes, isn't it interesting that all these videos are disappearing? When it is just a training technique that does no harm?

I always wondered about Blue and her violently swishing tail...

Keep up the good work!

billie said...

Thanks, Sharon - glad you stopped by! I enjoyed reading about Possum and will be visiting your blog again.

Michelle said...

Interesting.....they just keep on coming, don't they? I'm getting quite an education here!

billie said...

I'm getting educated too, Michelle. I have never been a fan of Anky, but I didn't realize how absolutely COMMON this kind of riding is.

Anonymous said...

Good evening camera-obscura,

due to happenstance, I found your website this evening.

Ref: links referred to that I've been able to access via -

Please will you kindly expand on concerns in particularly relating to horses being "rollkured in the background"?

I have watched the available videos several times, yet, for the life of me, I fail to see evidence of rollkur methods being used - as in methods in this link -

Perhaps I have missed something?
If so, I would be most obliged to be advised - what?

Ref: comments on the website "I always wondered about Blue and her violently swishing tail..."

Is there any evidence to justify comments that her tail swishing was "violent"?

my Lippi 17 Y.R.O mare uses her tail to express so much to other equines who well understand what she means & humans - if they care to take the time to learn what she is saying when she swishes it!

Wales UK

billie said...

In the video I linked to there is rollkur being used on horses that can be seen in the mirror at times and directly in the background at times. If you don't see it, I can't help you - there doesn't appear to be a "clock" on the video so that I can direct you to a specific point in the video.

Similarly,if you don't consider a wildly swishing tail violent, that is your subjective opinion, as mine is. We may well have different definitions for violent.

I see horses swishing their tails calmly, in a relaxed, rhythmic way, and I see horses swishing tails hard, forcefully, as if they are expressing annoyance. I have no evidence as you put it that Blu Hors is upset - but when I see a tail moving that much I do wonder why and do not see it as a relaxed, rhythmic motion.

Thanks for stopping by, and on Christmas Eve even! Happy holidays to you!

karmel said...

Thanks for posting this. I will look more into this.

Does this look ok to you?

It's from January 2012, after rollkur has been banned. So... if it's still being used then it should be prosecuted. Shouldn't it?

billie said...

In this video I'm not seeing rollkur per se but def. riding behind the vertical and the poll is not the highest point - the big neck bulge up top is high. By FEI's own standards this is not correct upper level dressage.

I'm also noting there are no horses warming up in the background of this video - which is where much of the rollkur originally seen on this website was noted when the videos were still up.

I noted in a couple of places the rider's elbows go behind her torso, which I also believe is incorrect - esp. in a double bridle. Thanks for commenting!

Simply Marvelous said...

Hi Billie,
Glad to find your on going discussion about Helgstrand's techniques and rollkur.

Much to my surprise someone, today, commented on my site admiring Blue Hors Matine video from 2007, which I had posted 5 years ago and since forgotten.

I just removed it. Now, with a more educated eye, my heart goes out to that wonderful horse, and so many others. Such torture they have endured.

With rollkur banned, now it is to keep watch on these people and stop the rollkur madness.

billie said...

Simply M, thanks for commenting - I haven't posted about it yet but understand the German PETA group is suing the owner/rider of Totilas for abusive riding/training and management (keeping him stalled nearly around the clock, etc.). It will be interesting to follow this story and see where it ends up.